Questions

Seasonal Spread Trading

Originally Posted by -oo0(GoldTrader)0oo-

1 Use Mony you can afford to lose

Playing with the houses chips gives you more freedom.

2 Start small

One calendar spread per $1,000.00 equity.

3 How long can you hold a position?

Calendar spreads take about 6 to 8 weeks to develop.

4 Do not be a nickel and dime'er

When you want in, get in. When you want out, get out.

5 Do not put your complete position on at one price.

In this way, you can keep your wins, bigger than your losses.

6 Do not add to a losing position

Scale down losing streaks, build up winners. It is easier to add in the direction of an established trend.

7 Build a Pyramid

Add to your winners by stacking or averaging up. Build your position when you are breaking out to new highs in the seasonal window.

8 Do not form opinions during the trading day

Spread Trading is end of day trading. Read and make your plan when the market is closed. Make your daily decision about each one. Buy, hold, add, sell, or wait.

9 Do not over commit

Because calendar Spreads are fully hedged you can run tight margins. Usually it can be touch and go for about a week. Nevertheless, when that seasonal thrust starts, you can pyramid and use new equity to add diversification.

10 Avoid Market Orders

A system using limit orders may be better. Simultaneous MOO and Simultaneous MOC may be they only way you can be sure of getting in or out of spreads with minimum slippage.

11 Use everything you know

Block out opinions. You alone are responsible for your own trades.

12 Act promptly

Do not go to sleep without placing your orders for the next trading session.

13 Diversify

Spreading out your risks may reduce drawdowns.

14 Cut your losses short

Small losses, large profits.

15 Let your profits run

Longer profit runs have higher profits.

16 Always take Windfall Profits

The reason for it all. Buy yourself some luxury items.

17 Take a trading break

Trade, rest, trade, rest. -ooO-(GoldTrader)-Ooo-

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Answers

4 Answer(s) found. Leave an Answer.

I have a question regarding point #7 "Build a Pyramid Add to your winners by stacking or averaging up. Build your position when you are breaking out to new highs in the seasonal window." I risk 2% on any given trade. I never add to winners as that would increase my risk above the 2% mark. Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I would appreciate your feedback.

What happened to all of my spaces?

Comment from GuyBower on Aug 3, 2009 > Re point 2: "Start small. One calendar spread per $1,000.00 equity." I'm wondering if you meant one per $10,000 as $1,000 is not small for a lot of spreads.< When we are trading spreads like Long February/Short December Heating Oil according to the NYMEX web site, the exchange requires minimum margin of $270 per spread. Why wouldn’t $1,000.00 equity, be enough to place the order? With and average profit of $553.00 on Heating Oil, over the last 15 years, a successful trade might be up over 100% on margins. Why would we want to leave thousands of dollars laying around unused when only one thousand is plenty? >I use a percent at risk model of determining contract allocation after estimating what a reasonable stop loss amount should be. This can make the allocation level quite high.< Probably so. I run a parabolic study on price. When I spread something like Long "Red" December/Short December Eurodollars where the exchange required margins vary from $300 to $700.00 per spread, my close-only stop might run about the same as margin. >For example, late in July I entered a FaB spread (short Sep fives and long Sep bond). Based on the volatility of the spread, I estimated a fair allocation was one per $45,000. In the same week, I entered spreads in both Eurodollars and Corn. Both of these we one per $20,000.< Well I don’t know how much you are making on those but with an average profit expected of $500.00 it is not unusual to see a return on margin of 100% on successful trades. >Overall, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to contract allocation.< Yes, of course, double or triple margins are fine. But I don’t want to see traders holding back because they do not have any other way but the market, to get the thousands of dollars that you seem necessary too back a single trade. How do your people get the tens of thousands of dollars necessary to make your kind of trades? Where does the original money come from? "All you really NEED is the margin. All the rest is up to the money management of each trader." > spread trading offers instant and wide diversification. I find that having as little as three open and unrelated trades offers good diversification and reduced volatility while maintaining good profit potential.< Yes and with as little as $3,000.00 a trader can maintain a position in three low-risk seasonal calendar spreads almost year round. >Re point 15: Let profits run I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but I often find myself struggling with this concept when it comes to spreads. ... It's just something that comes with experience and good information sources.< On seasonal charts its petty easy to see where your limits should be. Using a trailing stop is an easy technical way to keep into a runaway trend. Two many traders sell out with small gains at the expense of letting the big moves get away. Stanley Kroll was my teacher on that one. Your web site looks very interesting, I will make comments over there when I give them more time.

Good comments GoldTrader. I agree with what you're saying.

I trade spreads for a living and can add a few comments.

Re point 2: "Start small. One calendar spread per $1,000.00 equity."

I'm wondering if you meant one per $10,000 as $1,000 is not small for a lot of spreads.

I use a percent at risk model of determining contract allocation after estimating what a reasonable stop loss amount should be. This can make the allocation level quite high.

For example, late in July I entered a FaB spread (short Sep fives and long Sep bond). Based on the volatility of the spread, I estimated a fair allocation was one per $45,000. In the same week, I entered spreads in both Eurodollars and Corn. Both of these we one per $20,000.

Overall, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to contract allocation - and I think that is good advice for trader at any level.

Re point 10: Avoid market orders

You're right. Very rarely will I use a market orders and when I do, it is only for exits and only in very liquid markets like Eurodollars.

Re point 13: Diversify

One great reason for trading spreads is fantastic diversification - and it is a point that is often understated. With a stock portfolio you are never really diversified given systematic risk. Then adding good old real estate to the portfolio still doesn't give you that much diversification as 2008 showed us.

Compared to those traditional asset classes, spread trading offers instant and wide diversification. I find that having as little as three open and unrelated trades offers good diversification and reduced volatility while maintaining good profit potential.

Re point 15: Let profits run

I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but I often find myself struggling with this concept when it comes to spreads. Shares, futures, other investments - yes, let profits run. However spreads, in most but not all cases, will only go so far and if you have a good feel for your market, you'll know know how far that is.

I'd agree with letting profits run, but only within the bounds of what you feel the spread is capable of. I suppose that adds a new principle, something along the lines of 'Know Your Market'. This is something that no book will teach. It's just something that comes with experience and good information sources.

Anyway, that's my two bob worth. It's good to see some discussion here on spreads.

Regards,

GB

GuyBower.com

* I have some more info on spread trading on my website.

        

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